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The All Things Risk Podcast

The All Things Risk podcast explores the themes of risk, uncertainty and resilience as applied to sports, the arts, current affairs and just about any other domain. We feature long-form conversations with interesting guests who have loads of fascinating stories, tips and tools.
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Jun 10, 2024

Today, I am delighted to be joined by fellow decision-making professional Melina Moleskis. I came across Melina via Christian Hunt, who I've had on the show a couple of times now. Melina and I featured in a two-part series on decision-making in Christian's Human Risk podcast

Melina is the founder of Meta Decisions, a consultancy that leverages decision and behavioural science to help people and organizations make better decisions. She has a PhD in managerial science, an MBA from NYU Stern, and a bachelor's degree in mathematics. 

And she takes all that training and applies it in very useful and interesting ways. You will hear a lot of that reflected in this wonderful conversation that covered so much interesting ground from:

  • what the decision and behavioural sciences are;
  • the concept of indecisiveness and how to overcome that;
  • dealing with complexity
  • documenting decisions -This is something that is actually quite overlooked at times:
  • “Kill criteria”
  • the state of decision education

·      And we even get into some discussion about sport and its role in decision-making as a microcosm of good decisions. Melina has a great perspective on that because she's also a former competitive basketball player.

Show notes:

Melina on LinkedIn

Melina’s firm Meta Decisions

What’s Your Problem by Thomas Wedell-Wedellsborg

Adam Grant

The Alliance for Decision Education on Keeping a Decision Journal

Emotional Agility by Susan David

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May 29, 2024

This is Part Two of Two with Fraser Battye of the NHS Strategy Unit. If you haven’t heard Part One, I suggest you give it a listen, although it’s not strictly necessary. This episode is a continuation of the same conversation and covers creativity, uncertainty, cognitive biases and the limits of nudges.

Show notes:

Like what you heard?

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May 28, 2024

Today we have Part One of my two part conversation with Fraser Battye. Fraser is a Principal at the Strategy Unit of the UK National Health Service the NHS, and the Strategy Unit provides analysis and strategic change expertise. As part of that role, Fraser provides expert guidance on decision-making. And this is a two-part conversation which covers a huge number of fascinating dimensions of decision-making. In Part One, we cover :

  • balancing values with ethical considerations,
  • integrating the two brain hemispheres into the decision-making process
  • decision options as theories to test
  • AI and decision-making, and a lot more there

Show notes:

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Like what you heard?

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May 17, 2024

Today, I have the pleasure of welcoming Nuno Reis to the show. I came across Nuno via his LinkedIn posts on uncertainty and in particularly around something called Bayesian Analysis or Bayesian Thinking. If you’ve never come across the term, Bayesian Analysis is the mathematical interpretation of probability. And it underpins so much of our world  - and increasingly so because many AI models are built on Bayesian Thinking.

Nuno is quite critical of how Bayesian Thinking is applied – because we can never remove the human from the numbers and the models. He says that an embrace of Bayesian Thinking – useful as it is, has become an unhealthy dogma. And – that resonated with me particularly because as I looked at Nuno’s background I saw someone saying this who is a trained mathematician with a PhD in Mathematics in String Theory and did a postdoc at Oxford. He worked in the financial sector during the Global Financial Crisis where he sees parallels now in the worlds of AI and related areas.

So, I invited him to the show and we had a great conversation that covers not only the topics of Bayesian Thinking, the financial industry, but also the topic of uncertainty, lots of philosophy and running.

I hope you enjoy it and find it insightful. Here is Nuno Reis.

Show notes:

Nuno on LinkedIn

Nuno’s free book, Beyond Luck

Bayesian Thinking

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Join our “Decision Navigators” course (May 21, 2024 cohort now open)!

 

Apr 27, 2024

In this episode, we talk about “tuning in” – into a noisy world so that we can make the best decisions possible. My guest is Nuala Walsh. Nuala is a best-selling author, an adjunct professor of behavioural science at Trinity College in Dublin, an independent non-executive director, a TEDx speaker and one of the 100 Most Influential Women in Finance. She is the author of the fabulous new book Tune In: How to Make Smarter Decisions in a Noisy World.

This conversation covers that and it is incredibly insightful and fun. Nuala shares several misjudgement ‘traps’ from her book – everything from ego to memory, power, identity and more. We also discuss whistleblowing, regret and so-called “deaf spots”. Nuala shares a number of solutions and ways forward so that we can start to “tune in” and make smarter decisions.

Show notes:

Nuala’s website

Tune In: How to Make Smarter Decisions in a Noisy World.

Nuala on Linkedin

Nuala’s Harvard Business Review article “How to Encourage Employees to Speak Up When They See Wrongdoing”

Innocence Project

Fred Clay – found innocent after 38 years for a murder he didn’t commit

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Join our “Decision Navigators” course (May 21, 2024 cohort now open)!

Apr 17, 2024

Today, I welcome back my friend Alison Taylor to the show. Alison is a clinical professor at the NYU Stern School of Business and she is also the Executive Director of Ethical Systems. She spent the last two decades consulting with multinationals on anti-corruption, risk, human rights, stakeholder engagement, and ethics and compliance.

And she is the author of the fabulous new book, Higher Ground:  How Business Can Do the Right Thing in a Turbulent World. And one of the reasons why I think it's a fabulous book is because it opens up a long overdue grown-up conversation about business in society. Alison takes on and challenges a number of pithy myths and notions that this stuff is always easy, and that there are always win-wins all over the place. The reality is, it's quite hard.

And whether we're talking about employee unrest over racial injustice, justice, supply chains, climate change, or bribery and fraud, some of the things that may seem obvious and easy are actually anything but - doing the right thing can be very confusing, and there are lots of traps associated with it, including balancing interests, what ethics really means, how the concepts of transparency and “zero tolerance” can get in the way, and Alison shares insights on some of these challenges.

We also talk about trust, which stakeholders companies should listen to, how the book has been received (and it's been received incredibly well, but as you will hear, you'll be surprised to learn where some of the pushback has come from) and so much more. This is a great conversation!

Show notes:

Higher Ground: How Business Can Do the Right Thing in a Turbulent World

Alison’s website

Alison on LinkedIn

Alison’s work with the World Economic Forum on the Rise and Role of the Chief Integrity Officer

Alison’s article “How to build an ethics program for a new era”

BSR

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Join our “Decision Navigators” course (May 21, 2024 cohort now open)!

Apr 2, 2024

Today, I welcome back Paula Reid to the show. Paula is known as the “Adventure Psychologist” because of her expertise in adventure psychology, which is all about surviving, coping, and thriving during challenge and uncertainty. So obviously, there are huge parallels to decision-making under or uncertainty and to many of my show's themes.

And we talk a little bit about that at the outset of this episode. However, beyond that, this one is focused particularly around Paula's adventure cycling across the Ukraine from Odesa in the south to Chornobyl in the north, about 400 miles or 600 kilometres. She did so to raise money for Siobhan's Trust, now called “HopeFull” a charity involved in delivering humanitarian aid to Ukrainians.

This one covers an awful lot of ground, from adventure psychology to the origins of Paula's work in Ukraine, to the insight on trauma and mental health. Paula is actually in Ukraine as this goes out.

Video version: https://youtu.be/k_CNfLoFpDY 

Show notes:

Paula’s website

Paula’s Ukraine cycling adventure

Siobhan’s Trust (now called “HopeFull”)

Paula’s fundraising page

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Mar 15, 2024

Today, I'm delighted to welcome Laura Fox to the show. Laura is a risk management professional and the founder of Canary Risk, a firm that helps clients with outsourced risk management and to navigate uncertainty. Canary Risk is a relatively new firm, and Laura took her own personal and professional risks to set it up, so we obviously talk about that. We also cover the state of the risk profession, hiring, cognitive diversity, values, and so much more.

Laura's enthusiasm, her curiosity, courage, and authenticity come through so well in this conversation, and my favourite part is towards the end when she talks about her own decision-making approach in deciding to set up Canary Risk. And I won't say too much here because I want you to listen to it, other than to say that it's a powerful reminder that in order to make quality decisions, we need to have clarity about what's It's important to us. And that's different for each one of us.

One-size-fits-all, never fits.

Link to video version of the podcast.

Show notes:

Canary Risk

Canary clinics

Laura on LinkedIn

Michele Wucker

Rogue Waves by Jonathan Brill

How to Measure Anything by Doug Hubbard

Decision Quality by Spetzler, Winter and Meyer

Christian Hunt

FAIR methodology

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Sign up for our Decision Navigators course

 

Mar 1, 2024

Today, we discuss decision-making in international journalism, particularly when it comes to high-risk environments like conflict zones and natural disasters. My guest is Colin Pereira who was the Deputy Head of High Risk Security at the BBC and later Head of High Risk Security at ITN. Now he is a Director of the security consultancy HP Risk Management and a co-founder of Risk Pal, a risk assessment platform. Colin knows all about decision-making and risk to journalists in places like Ukraine and Gaza. 

He talks about that and the result is a fascinating conversation. We cover how decisions to deploy journalists are made, insights into covering the conflicts in Gaza and Ukraine, the future of international journalism including misinformation, as well as Colin's own decision-making as a start-up founder.

Show notes:

Colin on LinkedIn

RiskPal

HP Risk Management

John Schofield’s death

CNN’s Clarissa Ward

Committee to Protect Journalists

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Feb 13, 2024

This is part 2 of 2 with Daniel Wagner on focuses on his fourth and latest book about China: The China Epiphany – Comprehending China’s Relationship With America and The Rest of the World.

Show notes:

Daniel Wagner

The China Epiphany

Decision-Making in the Polycrisis Era

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Feb 11, 2024

This episode was recorded in June, 2022.

My guest is Daniel Wagner, my co-author of Decision-Making in the Polycrisis Era. Daniel had just spent 15 months living and working in China with the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB). This coincided with China’s “zero covid” policy. This is a fascinating conversation that covers:

·      Quarantine in China

·      Life in Beijing as an expat (and under zero covid)

·      Working at the AIIB

·      Geopolitics

·      Much more

Show notes:

Daniel Wagner

The China Epiphany

Decision-Making in the Polycrisis Era

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Feb 4, 2024

My latest guest is Garry Honey. Garry trains boards, non-executive directors, and business leaders on strategy, governance, risk, and communication. He is the founder of the consultancy Chiron Risk and runs leadership courses for various business schools.

In this conversation, we cover reputation, strategic risk, leadership, and decision-making in a crisis, why so few organizations try to map out a purpose, and a vision for their futures, uncertainty in the limits of knowledge, human factors, the problem with ESG, and so much more.

If you are a leader in an organization, or if you're interested in some of the challenges with leadership in large organizations, you will want to listen to this. It's fascinating stuff.

Show notes:

Garry on LinkedIn

Chiron Risk

Larry Fink on ESG

Ataraxia

Radical Uncertainty by Mervyn King and John Kay

The Carillion bankruptcy in the UK

Wicked problems

Wilful Blindness by Margaret Heffernan

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Jan 29, 2024

This episode is a rather special one because it is about a book I have co-written entitled Decision-Making in the Polycrisis Era and I am joined by my co-author Daniel Wagner. We are dealing with a range of overlapping and acute crises – from climate change to geopolitical upheaval and societal polarisation. At the same time, the tools and the mindset to approach decision-making are no longer fit-for-purpose.

Daniel and I discuss the polycrisis era and various aspects of it. We also cover a bit more at the end on decision-making, as we felt it was worth adding to the initial conversation. Daniel has been on the podcast previously. He is an accomplished author, country risk expert, and has recently been in Beijing and Abu Dhabi (the latter for the COP28 climate conference).

Show notes:

Decision-Making in the Polycrisis Era (links on how to purchase in your geography)

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Jan 19, 2024

In this episode, I welcome Constance Dierickx to the show. She is known as the “Decision Doctor®” and advises leaders on high-stakes decisions (think mergers, divestments, strategic changes, crises, and so on). She has a PhD in Clinical Psychology and is the author of three books, the latest of which is called Meta Leadership – How to See What Others Don’t and Make Great Decisions. We talk about that in this episode and more including the role of physical states in decision-making, deconstructing success, the veneration of leaders, high-stakes decisions and much more.

Show notes:

Constance Dierickx

Meta Leadership – How to See What Others Don’t and Make Great Decisions

Peter Attia’s The Drive with Andy Galpin

Alan Weiss

John Stumpf

Thinkers 50

Michael Bungay Stanier

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Dec 28, 2023

I was also going to release this one over Halloween, but I think that for the reasons that you will hear, it's far, far more appropriate to release it now. My guest is Dr. Merlin Tuttle, and today we talk about the conservation of bats. Merlin is a well-known American conservationist. He is the founder of Merlin Tuttle's Bat Conservation. He has studied and photographed bats for over 60 years, and in so doing, he has changed the perception of bats, from that of bats being an animal to be feared to one of them being valuable, safe, even cute, and likable. Bats also play an important role in protecting plant species, controlling deadly mosquito populations, and reducing the reliance on pesticides.

However, there is a lot more work to do because forest habitats of bats are disappearing, and bat populations are vulnerable. And as you will hear, the fear of bats is still a huge factor in all of this. This is also a conversation about fear. And we discuss that. Merlin shares his background, how and why he developed the largest collection of bat photographs anywhere in the world, bats and contagious diseases (and the myths around that). We also talk about Merlin's work protecting the bat colony of the Congress Avenue Bridge in Austin, Texas, which has now become a world-famous tourist site, and so much more.

Show notes:

Merlin Tuttle’s Bat Conservation

Merlin’s bat resources

Merlin’s video gallery

James Fairhead’s paper on the Ebola virus

Bats on the Congress Avenue Bridge in Austin, Texas

Exaggerated Disease Warnings - here you can find articles, citations, infographics for sharing all about bats and disease.

White-Nose Syndrome  

Finding, Protecting and Restoring America's Historic Bat Caves    

Pesticide Addiction: How Bats Can Help

Rabies in Perspective

Selecting a Quality Bat House 

Photo gallery

All about Austin's bats, www.austinbats.org

About MTBC field trips:

Citizen Scientists: In Search of Bats

 

Videos:

Winning Friends, Not Battles

Importance of Bats

Bats are Austin's Favorite Neighbors

Khao Chong Pran story

True Facts: Help the Bats!

Of Agaves and Bats film, https://vimeo.com/277755110

More videos for all bat values, https://www.merlintuttle.org/video-gallery/

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Dec 18, 2023

Today's episode is a wonderful look at organizational culture, performative risk management, that is risk management theatre, ways to quickly assess a healthy culture, and much more.

My guest is the brilliant Dr. Roger Miles.

For those of you who don't know him, Roger researches and engages with many kinds of organisations about how people perceive risk and make decisions under uncertainty. He has worked on, studied, and advised organizations about ethics, culture, psychology, and risk, decision-making under stress, and many more areas.

He is the author of Conduct Risk Management: Using a Behavioral Approach to Protect Your Board and Financial Services.

Conduct risk simply means the risk of people behaving badly.

He's also the lead author of Culture Audit in Financial Services.

And this conversation came about, because of an interaction I had with Roger about performative risk management – that is, stuff that happens only for show, not because it's actually helpful. And we talk about that, and it turns out that there is a long history of it.

However, there is so much more in this wonderful episode, which covers everything from 

authoritarianism, unethical contracts, abstracts, codes of practice, AI, cognitive diversity, and a lot more.

Show notes:

Roger’s website

Roger on LinkedIn

Conduct Risk Management: Using a Behavioral Approach to Protect Your Board and Financial Services

Culture Audit in Financial Services.

Mission Improbable by Lee Clarke

States of Denial by Stanley Cohen

Fundamental attribution error

Taskmaster

  _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

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Drop us a note: allthingsrisk@gmail.com 

Nov 23, 2023

Today, we talk geopolitical risk, an area that, if recent surveys are to be believed, keeps CEOs up at night more than anything else. My guest is Derek Leatherdale. Derek is the founder and managing director of GRI Strategies, which helps companies thrive in a volatile world. He does that by helping them think through and respond to geopolitical risk.

Prior to that, Derek set up and ran the Geopolitical Risk Function at HSBC, helping integrate expert geopolitical risk insight into the way in which the bank manages risk. And prior to that, Derek worked in national security and intelligence roles for the UK government. He works with boards and senior leaders on issues related to geopolitics.

This one is a great conversation, not just because we talk about a fascinating area of risk, but also because it provides insights into the complexities of decision-making at large organisations. And even if you don't work in a large corporate, I think you'll find this one very interesting. The world is indeed complex and uncertain and getting more so, and it's interesting to consider how to make sense of that complexity and to make practical decisions around it, and I think that Derek's insights help us do that.

Show notes:

GRI Strategies

Derek on LinkedIn

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Like what you heard?

Subscribe to All Things Risk wherever great podcasts are found: https://thedecisionmaking.studio/podcast

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Drop us a note: allthingsrisk@gmail.com 

Nov 8, 2023

Today, I speak to Sabrina Segal about managing risk in the so -called “third sector”, which is the charity and non-profit sector.Sabrina is an international development and humanitarian assistance professional.She has worked on the ground during many humanitarian crises and international development roles in the likes of the Middle East and North Africa, Sub -Saharan Africa, and South Asia.

She is an attorney by training, but for the past few years has been involved in risk management and decision making in the third sector. And she hosts a podcast called Tolerable Risk, which provides insights on these topics.

And we get into all of that in this conversation. And I always find insights about risk and decision making from other contexts to be fascinating because there are always a number of transferable things.
The third sector deals with high stakes issues, use, complex relationships, and resource constraints.You will hear that that context is incredibly important when it comes to managing risk.

You will also hear that ‘traditional risk management’ simply doesn't work in this context.And we talk a lot about that. And what I find very impressive and inspirational about what Sabrina does is that she is setting out to change that, and you will certainly hear more about that too.

Show notes:

Sabrina on LinkedIn

Tolerable Risk

The Tolerable Risk Podcast

Grand Bargain Agreement

The Paris Declaration

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Like what you heard?

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Drop us a note: allthingsrisk@gmail.com 

 

Nov 1, 2023

Our second in a thing called "Decision Reactions"

Show notes: NPR piece: https://www.npr.org/2021/09/29/104149... Original Al Jazeera piece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOjV6...

Follow The Decision-Making Studio and get our copy of the FOCUS framework primer - www.thedecisionmaking.studio 

Oct 24, 2023

Today on the show, I am delighted to bring you my conversation with Rupert Evill. Rupert is the founder of Ethics Insight, a firm that helps organisations make risk relevant and implement risk, ethics and compliance programmes quickly. Rupert has 22 years of experience managing risks and crises in a variety of different environments and worked on roles focused on investigations, political risk, compliance, crisis response, and counterintelligence and counter-terrorism. He has worked in over 50 countries, including in Asia for over 12 years. He has recently written a book entitled Bootstrapping Ethics to help limited resources navigate risk and ethical challenges.

Rupert is a bit of a kindred spirit in that like me, he as an aversion to “performative” risk management, ethics, and compliance activities. Many of these things are dogma and don’t work in the types of complex environments in which Rupert’s investigative expertise is incredibly helpful. We talk about all these things and more, including:

  • Why ‘zero tolerance’ stances on ethical issues backfire;
  • How bribery and corruption actually work in challenging environments – including some interesting anecdotes;
  • The ‘dark arts’ investigations;
  • Much more!

Show notes:

Ethics Insight

Rupert on LinkedIn

Bootstrapping Ethics

Erin Myer’s The Culture Map

Rapport by Emily and Laurence Alison

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Like what you heard?

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Drop us a note: allthingsrisk@gmail.com 

Oct 19, 2023

This is the first in a potential series from The Decision-Making Studio called "Decision Reactions" in which we look at quality decision-making practice. In this episode, we tee up our FOCUS decision-making framework and apply it to a great scene from the film Moneyball, starring Brad Pitt.

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Get a copy of our short primer on the FOCUS framework by going to https://thedecisionmaking.studio/ and signing up for updates.

Oct 10, 2023

In this episode of the All Things Risk podcast, we have the pleasure of speaking with Bryce Hoffman, the founding partner and president of Red Team Thinking. Bryce is our first guest since launching the Decision-Making Studio (and we will be producing episodes more frequently) and I cannot think of a more appropriate guest.
Bryce Hoffman is best-selling author and an expert in the field of ‘red teaming,’ a practice that challenges strategies and enhances decision-making through the incorporation of contrarian perspectives. He brings a unique perspective to his work, having been the first civilian graduate of the US Army's Red Team University.
We begin our conversation by discussing leadership (and why Bryce views Elon Musk and Jack Welch as poor examples of leadership). Bryce then explains what red teaming is – it involves stress testing strategies, uncovering blind spots, and examining assumptions to improve decision-making. It's a method used by both military and corporate organizations to identify vulnerabilities and produce robust plans.
As we delve deeper, Bryce shares how red teaming can be particularly valuable in leadership roles. By embracing diverse perspectives and fostering a culture of open dialogue, leaders can prevent groupthink and make better-informed decisions. He stresses the importance of challenging assumptions and valuing dissenting opinions, ultimately creating stronger organizations and resilient teams.
Throughout our discussion, Bryce provides lots of practical examples and actionable advice for implementing red team thinking in different contexts. We touch on the power of scenario planning, the benefits of actively seeking out devil's advocates, and the necessity of constantly reassessing strategies.
We wrap up our conversation by exploring the future of decision-making and the role that red teaming will play in an increasingly complex and uncertain world. Bryce's insights leave us with a renewed appreciation for the value of critical thinking and the power of embracing opposing perspectives.
Show notes:

Red Team Thinking

Book: Red Teaming: Transform Your Business By Thinking Like the Enemy

Bryce on LinkedIn

Bryce’s Book American Icon: Alan Mulally and the Fight to Save Ford Motor Company

Peter Senge’s The Fifth Discipline

Shakespeare in the Bush by Laura Bohannan

Daniel Kahneman

Gary Klein

The Logic of Failure by Dietrich Dörner

Blink by Malcolm Gladwell

Premortem

Four Ways of Seeing

Operation Blacklist

Annie Duke

Phil Tetlock

Think-Write-Share

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Drop us a note: allthingsrisk@gmail.com 

Sep 21, 2023

This episode’s guest is Chris Hess. Chris happens to be a friend of mine from way back in my high school days. He, like me, has created an international career. And he is also based in the UK. I invited him to be a guest on the show because his professional experience and expertise is very interesting, and right up the street of this show's themes. Chris is a partner with Hesmur, a boutique consultancy focused on the insurance and wealth management sectors. He helps clients to address changing marketplaces, to digitize their businesses, and to build resilience.

Prior to this, Chris has been an entrepreneur and a senior executive. This has included stints doing business in both Russia and China, and obviously we talk about that. We also talk about taking risk, about decision-making, about startups. We talk about last year's UK mini-budget crisis, as Chris worked with many pension funds and had a unique view of the event. And if you aren't based in the UK, this was the crisis that almost took down the British economy and ended up taking down, the government of Liz Truss. We also talk about planning, the use of experts, and a lot more.

Show notes:

Hesmur

Chris on LinkedIn

The UK’s mini budget crisis

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Aug 27, 2023

In this episode, we look at decision-making in the world of deep sea diving, a topic that provides us with so many transferable lessons to other domains. It is also a very fun conversation. My guest is Gareth Lock. Gareth is the founder of The Human Diver, an organisation that improves the effectiveness of diving skills through specific human factors training.

Gareth has had a long career as a diver, starting out his career in the Royal Air Force where he spent 25 years. Over the years he realised that one thing the military does very well is teamwork – which, of course makes sense because poor decisions, bad behaviour and a lack of situational awareness can cost lives. Gareth found that the world of diving focused heavily on technical expertise – obviously important – but emphasised human behaviours and decision-making less than it should. As a result, he brings these approaches to the diving profession. Gareth has led many complex dives all over the world. He has also taken a huge amount of amazing underwater photos which you can see on his website.

This conversation is filled with wonderful insights about decision-making, working in teams, planning, the importance of constructive dissent, psychological safety, a just culture, making change happen, systems thinking and much more.

Show notes:

The Human Diver, Gareth’s website

Gareth’s book Under Pressure – Diving Deeper with Human Factors

Gareth’s documentary ‘If Only’

Steve Shorrock on Human Factors

Local rationality

Blog post: “Near misses: Were you lucky or good?”

Authority gradients

Creeping determinism

The Checklist Manifesto by Atul Gawande

Join the Club by Tina Rosenberg

Piper Alpha

Kotter’s 8 step model for leading change

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Aug 4, 2023

The Inbetweenisode makes a return! This one is based on this article - https://medium.com/@bcattaneo/when-do-you-cross-the-rubicon-a-useful-technique-to-frame-decisions-e4fcdf6e9da3 

Like what you heard?

Subscribe and/or leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts: http://apple.co/1PjLmK

Subscribe on Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/all-things-risk/the-all-things-risk-podcast

Subscribe on Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/ben-cattaneo

Follow the podcast on Twitter: https://twitter.com/RiskThings

Drop us a note: allthingsrisk@gmail.com 

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